Why Guesting is Important

September 6, 2012 at 5:50 pm | Posted in Guild Wars 2, mmorpg, PvP, WvW | 16 Comments
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I was pretty disappointed that guesting wasn’t going to be in at launch. It’s a big feature to me, but having free transfers has certainly been an acceptable compromise. Also I’ve actually managed to play with others on overflow servers and do a dungeon run with people on other servers since it doesn’t seem to matter what server you’re on in a dungeon.

Guesting will become more important again once overflow servers begin to disappear as is already happening.

Anyway guesting was never really for primarily PvE players like me anyway. The need for it comes from World vs World. Being able to naturally transfer around servers would upset the player balance in that part of the game. People would naturally tend towards winning servers instead of sticking it out with the server they settled on.

Which brings me to the problems my own server has been having.

I guess I’ll have to start from the beginning. My guild is friendly with some guilds who are friendly with some guilds who wanted to create a successful World vs World community. They bought the server’s domain name, set up a forum, formed an alliance, invited everyone to particpate and a lot of people ended up on our server.

Initially our server had essentially been doing very well. We’d won every match up by quite a bit. The problem was we were doing too well, the queues for World vs World were hours long. You’d be damn lucky to be able to form a guild group let alone play with someone you know.

At this point people started to grumble but the heads of the alliance advised everyone to stick it out since it was still the first week and queues were bound to die down. Maybe it was random, or maybe because the matchup system is working, we were then matched up against other successful WvW servers.

We did not do so well.

This seemed to be the catalyst to make these WvW guilds start to panic. Several large and well known guilds have left, including the guild that went so far as to buy the domain name.

Ask them and they’ll start complaining that escorting dolyak groups were out of control. Ask them and they’ll say that if you were just in WvW to explore or screw around you should leave so that they could play WvW. Ask them and they’ll say the queues were just too long.

But if you ask me, suddenly dolyak farming has disappeared (Edit: yeah because they took out the rewards apparently) from WvW on my server. If you ask me, everyone has a right to join in WvW, it isn’t your server, its ours. And if you ask me WvW went from me not even being able to get in to me playing whenever I want.

We’re getting crushed though. We’re being matched up against top servers who have guilds like Goon Squad when we really don’t warrant it.

I’m not saying people can’t play where they want, or that long queues weren’t frustrating or painful. I’m just saying if you want to build a stable community, leave a legacy, try giving it more than a week.

And that is why guesting will be important in the future. To stop nonsense like this. Entire alliances shifting where they play on a whim.

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16 Comments

  1. Mmmm… I’m kinda puzzled by the point you’re making. Guesting, once available, will NOT allow players to join World vs. World on different servers than their home ones, so it wouldn’t change in any way this situation. Doesn’t that make your point moot, or did I miss something?

    • Once transferring costs gems entire alliances won’t shift servers on a whim. It’s all there in the post.

      • Well… yeah, but that is because of the current existence of free transfers, not really because of the lack of guesting, which is your point. Having guesting wouldn’t change this, removing free transfers would.

        I understand that guesting is disabled as consequence of having free transfers on, but saying that the lack of guesting causes problems of WvW guilds transferring too often is a non-sequitor, since that particular feature doesn’t affect WvW in any way.

        (BTW, I was logged in on the incorrect account earlier, sorry for the double identity problem)

        • The two are linked. Transfers are only free because guesting isn’t in. You say that right in your comment so disputing this tiny point is kind of pointless.

          • No… I said in my comment that guesting isn’t in because transfers are free, not the other way around; this order is very important. Both the lack of guesting and the excessive use of transfers are consequence of the later being free. But guesting and transfers are not bound together, GW2 could have guesting on right now if they wanted, they just chose not to. Even if those two were tied together, it wouldn’t make guesting the solution to your problem.

            Despite your comment on Twitter, I’m not jumping on this particular because I’m skipping your whole argument: the argument itself is solid, but this non sequitur on the most basic part of the argument makes it moot.

            When you said about guilds transferring too much *because* of guesting not being on the game, that would be like me saying that I can’t breathe because my clothes are wet, when in actuality I’m just underwater. It’s still a good point to say you should be able to breathe, I just think you shouldn’t blame the clothes for it, even if they are always wet when you’re drowning.

            • The only reason transfers are free is because guesting isn’t in.

              • That’s incorrect, transfers are free because they want to give time for server population to settle without overcrowding particular servers.

                “At launch, players will be able to transfer between worlds freely. However, once server populations have largely settled and stabilized, world transfers will be restricted to once a week and cost a variable amount of gems based on the population of the world being transferred to.”
                https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/a-world-of-choice-the-regions-of-guild-wars-2/

                Guesting is off because because transfers are free.

                Excessive use of transfers is a consequence of those being free; it has nothing to do with guesting. When you start your post saying “why guesting is important,” your argument should be about something that is consequence of guesting, not another parallel effect of what caused it. This isn’t semantics, it’s just logic. You presented a good argument on why free transfers are problematic, but this jump you made to another consequence of free transfers being the cause of the first problem just doesn’t make any sense.

                I’m not trying to annoy you or flame your post. But its argument is fundamentally flawed because of this important distinction you simply don’t want to acknowledge.

                • Your argument is based on semantics and i won’t argue with you further about it. It has nothing to do with the post as a whole.

  2. That sounds 100 percent identical to the problems I’m seeing on Stormbluff Isle. We were crushing, but you couldn’t get in. Now you can and we’re getting rolled. Also there’s this timezone issue, where we own during US prime time but lose all of our work during the day (euro/Asian peak). Gonna have to figure that out.

    Regarding the Doylak farming, see: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_status_updates/Archive_1#Tuesday.2C_September_4.2C_2012

    “We’re temporarily disabling rewards on Dolyak caravan escort events in World v. World while we work on rebalancing them.”

    And spot on about these entitled jerks saying you can’t explore or do whatever you want to do. S’all fair in war, friends.

    • Ahhh thanks for that, I guess I totally screwed up that point about dolyak farming. Oh well.

  3. I don’t think guesting was intended with WvW in mind but free server transfers may definitely be reaching a point where the negatives outweigh the positives. As for players jumping ship, fair weather PvPers are the worst. Not only is it poor sportmanship, it’s not even a very effective strategy. Ultimately they may as well be chasing their tails. They’re never going to get anywhere trying to chase after the winning team. That, and I have to wonder what will happen when they try to assert themselves unto a successful server with an informal hierarchy already in place.

    As for people trying to micromanage others, I remember people being pissy about the dungeon because people were doing that instead of taking towers. I think the dungeon is ingenious, and any server is likely to be “shorted” because some players are doing that instead. I typically saw a fairly balanced variety of players down there anyway. The one time a certain server was in abundance, they were also winning so it obviously wasn’t hurting them any.

    • Actually i think the sole purpose of guesting is to allow people to play with each other without allowing transfers. Otherwise Arenanet would have went with a districting structure similar to guild wars. But thats me.

  4. Sounds like what happened on my server. First few matchups we held literally everything for most of the day. Then we got matched against awesome servers and thrashed senseless. Things have settled down now, though, the last few matchups, all three servers have had scores in the same league as each other – maybe the top server had double the score of the bottom, but not 10x as much or anything crazy like that.

    • yesterday our server ended up something like 20k, to our next closest competitor at 50k and the winner at 120k. To give you some idea.

      • As you say, time is important here. The server will be balanced downwards, and I suspect youll find your wvw becomes popular again. People love winners, or rather the crowd loves easy points. I am not sure how anets going to balance it but they’ll think of something. As for a group giving up on a server, or someone passing judgment on the whole wvw thing, I thinks it a bit early yet. However, its never too early for the crowd be chasing their easy points. Good luck finding the next alliance, a lot of people see this as part of the whole EVE type experience. meh.

        • I’m sure we’ll be more successful eventually but we did go from a high pop server to a medium pop server overnight. It’ll be a while before that improves.


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