World Versus World

February 16, 2012 at 12:41 pm | Posted in Guild Wars 2, mmorpg | 34 Comments
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This image is entitled Stonemist Castle, center keep. Refer to below image as well.

With the upcoming press beta embargo to release on Monday flooding the internet with Guild Wars 2 news I didn’t have much expectation of anything new until then. But I guess we know one thing that is going to be talked about a lot. Arenanet just released a blog post on World Versus World, their 3 faction PvP scenario inspired by Dark Age of Camelot or Guild Wars’ own Alliance Battles.

We’ve known a lot about them for a while but this blog post goes into detail.

We’ve known that there would be some measure of Real Time Strategy involved. This appears to take the form of building siege equipment, repairing keeps, and upgrading fortifications with a resource called supply that regenerates over time.

It sounds as though if you want to be competitive in World Versus World you’re going to want to stay well supplied.

I hope the upgrades are more than simply giving NPCs or fortifications more armour or health. Surely there must be a variety of upgrades.

There was also mention some time ago of siege engines and the blog post talks about those as well. Catapults, ballistae, trebuchets, arrow carts, and to everyones great delight, asuran siege golems. Siege weapons have their own strengths and weaknesses which should make it interesting to find out which are most useful and which are generally regarded as non-optimal. Aside from the golems what I was really intrigued by were the defenses. Boiling oil, cannons and mortars? I would love to pour boiling oil on some people, and that is in real life.

I do have questions about recruiting NPCs though. How effective are they? How many can you recruit at once? Can they be used to attack gates like siege weapons?

If we compare the epic seeming size of Stoneist above, to the Castle Bailey here, we get some good comparative size.

Moving on to these Orbs of Power. It’s clearly Capture The Flag. That is not a bad thing. These maps are said to be as big as Guild Wars 2 can have. That must be pretty big. Demo videos have players wandering the full 20 minutes from one end of the map to the other and still not really seeing everything. Can you imagine playing CTF on that scale or even WvW on that scale?

You take all this, you throw it in a pot where you can join WvW at level 1, gain experience and gear all the way to level 80, and you’ve got yourself a self-contained game most people could play for an eternity before they got bored.

Now this is something guilds can get into, maybe some people want raids but I don’t doubt many will be pacified with this content. I just wish we had more details on just how guilds take keeps or what these benefits are exactly.

Can’t wait to see WvW in action (or dub vee dubs to those in the know) and I can’t wait to see what else is going to drop from this press beta.

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34 Comments

  1. The interview with Colin I think said they are designing the Guard NPCs to be Walls in that they will have alot of HP but won’t deal much damage on there on 1v1, there a way to slow down enemys but not stop them.(I think)

    • Ahh yes I vaguely recall that. If that is the case, again, I wonder how effective they are at it, or if you have to pay for them to respawn or what the timing is on respawn etc.

  2. I think the recruitable NPCs are location bound and not just follow you around. I think each camp of ally NPCs has a certain range within they will send out patrols to harass enemy fortifications or wandering groups. Thus I don’t think there is a max number that you can reach.

    • Well that is a possibility. I do not know how they’ve organized it. Will be interesting to see some videos of people trying it out.

  3. Oh, I love the part with the “Orbs of Power”. Reminds me a lot of Ultima Online’s faction system with its city capturing via conquering and defending the city’s sigils.
    Ok, maybe it’s just that I’m hyped now for a game like I haven’t been since anticipating Warhammer Online. 😉

    • I imagine that wvw will be very popular to anyone interested in this type of gameplay, so warhammer fans, daoc fans, and other types of territory defense/conquering.

  4. […] vs World vs World. WvWvW. WvW. WuvWuv. We have many names for it, but today we finally have some concrete information. Having […]

  5. Awesome, well written artical. Fired up the imagination.

    One of the most important bits was the ranking of each server, this is utter awesome. We can all fight other opponents, at least in theory, that are close to each others skill levels as a server.

    A reason to be in a guild, like no reason ever before; thats game play based.

    Taking over the castles etc are of course very much like the old GW style of gvg so we should all be happy to move across; its just more awesome.

    Awesome.

    The one thought that comes into my mind is death. I assume we can take res shrines or something? Do we start back at the start (euw). Huge maps make for large travel, which is good in a game play sense not so fun otherwise. I don’t want masses of enemy respawning 15 seconds from my gates… or maybe I do… I don’t know.

    • Yeah I can’t wait to take a keep/castle with my guild and just sort of make it our wvw hangout.
      As for ressing there are waypoints on these maps, but as for how close they will be, its hard to tell.

  6. What if there’s a Commander position!? OMG, Think about it.

    The commander, who can access to a minimap of the area, can command (or guide) his allies via the compass drawing! haha, That would be awesome. (even it sounds too good to be true.)

    I’m begining to think that They just LOVE to make their fans’ imagination run wild.
    Every time they release a news. It is so….. so… like they’re dropping a Hype Nuke on us!

    • Was there a commander position in daoc or some game i’m not familiar with? If so it does sound like that would be a good idea.

      • Well, I never play or follow daoc so idk, I just imagine the Upgrade version of the Classic Guild Wars Compass drawing, (for those who never play GW1 : it’s where everyone can draw anything on the compass and show on party member compass. (and i’m sure most of us have met some kids who really love drawing and pinging nonstop or trying to fill the compass with white lines.))

        In Guild Wars 2 I’d love to see some improvement on this like… You will know Who Draws what? (maybe party members will draw in different colors?)

        and in WvW if there’s a commander (or more than one or just guild leader or groups leader anything.) thay can somehow do something on a Map (or minimap) to give their allies some direction or order.

        just a thought. xD
        Can’t…. Wait…. for… Monday anymore! Doraemo~~~~n

        • I would definitely like different colours for different people or some way of indicating who is drawing on the map.

          I also agree that a commander position is a good idea, but i wouldn’t know how to designate one person over another.

      • I believe Savage was probably one of the first to have a commander position. He essentially plays the game as an RTS while his troops play the fps part carrying out his ‘requests’. The commander chooses what to build, where to bombard, in fact what to do by assigning tasks to his troops.
        It’s essentially his planning that makes or break the side in a real game; xp is assigned to the fps playing depending on how well they carry out the commanders tasks.
        Sounds nice, put too much on the shoulders of one person; and indeed not a lot of players get to play this position at 32 a side you get a 1/32 chance of being in command which can be frustrating since noob commanders are a great way to guarantee a loss.
        Does make for a more flowing, better sense of direction, having a commander but I wont miss one if we don’t have one. I am sure the individual guilds well have vent, etc. Maybe the more coordindated servers might have a vent between representatives of each guild, is that taking it too far?
        I do like the AB level of game, as your right its not as hit/miss as the “real” pvp but it can also be more frustrating if your server balance is bad. I wonder how much having 3 servers is going to help out; I suspect rankings are going to really help here.

        • I suspect vent will be key for any kind of group, but not necessary for an entire server to coordinate.

    • I just read Mike Ferguson Reddit thread. he answer something about ‘squad’ and ‘commander’. Love it! but still relying on chat box.

      “Squads are a way for larger groups of people to band together for a common goal. Squads are led by a commander, and that commander has the ability to talk to everyone in their squad in a chat channel that only the commander can talk in. Commanders can also place waypoints on the map that are viewable by all of their squad members. These waypoints tell the squad to do things like’ attack here’, ‘regroup here’, and ‘bring supply here’. Squads are extremely useful in WvW, but they are also useable in PvE and are the perfect thing for taking down our epic world bosses.”

      still I’d Love to have a mission map – -” (the U in GW1)

  7. All those “end-game raiders” and members of highly organized guilds who were questioning what was in GW2 for them… here’s your answer. This is going to require a high degree of coordination in order to be very successful.
    .
    (Oh, and to those raiders who complain they don’t PVP… do you want me to get my zipper for ya, or can you get it while you’re down there? This isn’t going to be like any of the pvp you’ve ever seen in previous MMOs, and you “hard-core” players need to harden the f*** up and do your organizing vs something more challenging than the “wet papper bag” AIs you’ve been masturbating too. Combat is like sex… if you’re doing it alone, with a machine for assistance, you’re not really getting the experience everyone wants and deserves.)

    • I thought combat was like a box of chocolates… once things heat up it gets pretty messy, and those with weak stomachs might get sick from too much? Oh wait, you mean pixel combat, not the real thing. 🙂

      • Both of you are taking your metaphors to some weird places.

    • Yeah free for all pvp is a lot different than high tension limited numbers pvp. I always feel like there is much less pressure to not die etc. Frees you up to not feel bad.

  8. […] Hunter’s Insight — World Versus World. “With the upcoming press beta embargo to release on Monday flooding the internet with Guild Wars 2 news I didn’t have much expectation of anything new until then. But I guess we know one thing that is going to be talked about a lot. Arenanet just released a blog post on World Versus World, their 3 faction PvP scenario inspired by Dark Age of Camelot or Guild Wars’ own Alliance Battles.” […]

  9. On topic, I’m liking the info on WvW thus far. So much, in fact, that I’m thinking of rolling a charr ranger that will spend most of his time roaming WvW, just to see if such a character can be viable.

    • It really is an interesting question of whether someone would want to do that or not.

  10. I wonder how they intend to address the problem with balance over the three participant servers – there is a reason why most MMOs have relatively short scenarios with roughly equal sized teams on both sides.

    For instance, will winning depend largely on the amount of players a server is able to field and the time they put in? and what happens to captured keeps etc. during the night? Could a small server population ever defeat a larger one? etcetera?

    I think that that ANet will have to be really innovative to address these issues – the matchup idea is a good start (and clever use of NPCs), but is the server ladder essentially going to be ordered by size of W3 PvP population?

    • I suspect this is going to be the case, mostly (level plays a part too) and unfortunately gear. I also think PvP population spread through the hours is going to be important too; having us Australians to keep your stuff around over night might be critical. Euros during the early part, then the USA players, then us. lol. Then again they might be doing their “tallying” at points that are convient to each of us (i.e when the usa go to bed, then again when we go, and again when the poms go).
      I know WOW beefs up players depending on how out numbered they are (both health and damage buffs). It’s still usually a romp, though.
      One way to “balance” it I’ve seen in the past is to make it harder to hold than to attack; thus at least the smaller force can “win” occasionally if temporarly.
      One wonders if they are expecting a guild to actually hold and maintain a keep or if they are planning on making it relatively easy for a keep to be taken.

      • I think that reginal server battles will make most sense. I am from europa- and i am so much hoping for some epic battles against servers from predomainly neigbouring countries. Norway vs Sweeden vs Denmark -or France vs germany vs England.That would for sure create some server pride, and some really strong PvP communities. And at least timezones will then not make that much of a problem.(I am still hoping for a world wide access, but i think its dead end not to pair servers based on their regional status).

        the 3 servers battle is a balance tool that will push the borders to balance points. The 2 small will most of the time push the bigger one out of there own zones. And the central will be free for all.
        Properly another balance tool is simple the time it takes to gather supply then batter a keep down and take it, and rebuild it up too at least not have hole in the walls. Even without alot of defenders, its properly a timeconsuming task.

        • Maybe they’ll make servers by language, its a possibility, but I doubt things will be split up on the basis of nationality. Its all about numbers so a server of all norwegians probably isn’t going to happen.

      • Gear will definitely play a part. This isn’t competitive PvP so much as a free for all.

    • I think a keep will probably very likely be undefended for long periods at night, but whether or not that is a bad thing is yet to be seen. Of course a server with more people interested in pvp is going to defeat one with fewer people involved, but again, does that really matter? Doesn’t seem like the point.

      • I think that you need to keep all the participants interested in the result and not have teams essentially “resigning” when/if a loss is a foregone conclusion. Also, one of the (brilliant!) points about the design is that it may well encourage server pride and the community that is missing from other MMOs, a bit like supporting football teams, and that would replace and be a much more entertaining online experience than grinding for gear in raid dungeons. But, that wouldn’t work so well if it was clear that your side has nothing to gain from an encounter viz a viz the rest of the worlds. One idea might be to have degrees of win/loss which effect your position on the ladder – so for instance, if you lose badly you might drop more places and if you win by a large margin you go up further:- then you always have an incentive to keep playing.
        Anyway the whole idea of 3W is fascinating and something I’m really looking forward to in GW2.

        • Hope your right, but they do have a similar sort of pvp type in WOW, which is horde vs alliance. No one really cares, they just want their loot. I hope this is different.

          • Very much hope people don’t ignore it – it’s very different to Horde vs Alliance in WoW.

        • I think this all depends on how WvW is rewarded, what win conditions are, how you motivate losing sides. There are 3 teams with only 1 winning team, so surely there are rewards for all 3 teams.

          • I hope so – Early in WAR there were no real rewards for open world PvP (which was really pretty good) and noone played it, then they added some gear and…

            Be interested in your impressions on the press beta :).


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